Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

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Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby little_tigress » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:26 am

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Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby Wesley » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:51 am

I'm not sure of the far reaching affects of this. On one hand, the idea that a private business can determine who they serve and who they don't appeals to me. If someone doesn't want to serve me as a Christian, great. Whatever. I'm fine with that. On the other hand, I'm not certain what the practical and reasonable limits are to that kind of freedom of choice.

It's complicated.
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby TX_CO_Matt » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:00 pm

That's pretty horrible, not as horrible as what Kansas is trying to pass (which goes as far as even emergency services have the right to not help you because of your sexual orientation). My question would be "how do you define substantial burden?". The interview with the rep, he said it wouldn't cover a hotel or restaurant refusing service because that's not considered a substantial burden. How do you really define substantial burden? If that's all it is, how does it really not protect those services.
Anyway, I don't like it when people try to make LGBT rights the new black rights, but when people pass laws like this, it makes it really not to not see a similarity between the two. They're basing the law on religious grounds, but I just don't think that freedom of religion should allow this. There's a major difference between a church refusing to marry a gay couple and a photographer refusing to do so. I don't think this is going to stand up very long, if you look at history, refusing service is seen as more discriminatory than being required to serve when your sole reason not to is because of a belief.
Personally, I sure as heck wouldn't allow someone to refuse service to me just because of their belief.
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby little_tigress » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:17 pm

They're doing this in Kansas too?

This actually brings up a topic I was planning to ask about here.

I think everyone here knows I work as a nanny. When I was searching for jobs here last spring, I recall seeing a couple - two women who had a little girl and needed a fulltime nanny. The job details, such as hours and pay, looked great to me. And they both sounded like really interesting people that I probably could get along with great.

But I personally believe that homosexuality is a sin, and I wasn't sure how comfortable I would have been helping to raise a little girl in a home where that was going on. Plus, I don't hide the fact that I am a Christian -so if they asked me directly my thoughts on homosexuality, I'd have to be honest. Which very well might the end of that job right there - because its hard to say politely (though I'd've tried my hardest), "I believe your lifestyle is sinful."

Sooo... I never bothered applying.

Now that situation might be different than say Home Depot refusing to serve a same sex couple. So whats the line? In my situation I feel like I would have been actively encouraging sin because I'd have to raise their daughter to believe it was OK, or I'd likely be out of a job. Home Depot would just be selling them a hose so they can tend to their garden. No encouragement there that I can see.
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby TX_CO_Matt » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:33 am

little_tigress wrote:They're doing this in Kansas too?

This actually brings up a topic I was planning to ask about here.

I think everyone here knows I work as a nanny. When I was searching for jobs here last spring, I recall seeing a couple - two women who had a little girl and needed a fulltime nanny. The job details, such as hours and pay, looked great to me. And they both sounded like really interesting people that I probably could get along with great.

But I personally believe that homosexuality is a sin, and I wasn't sure how comfortable I would have been helping to raise a little girl in a home where that was going on. Plus, I don't hide the fact that I am a Christian -so if they asked me directly my thoughts on homosexuality, I'd have to be honest. Which very well might the end of that job right there - because its hard to say politely (though I'd've tried my hardest), "I believe your lifestyle is sinful."

Sooo... I never bothered applying.

Now that situation might be different than say Home Depot refusing to serve a same sex couple. So whats the line? In my situation I feel like I would have been actively encouraging sin because I'd have to raise their daughter to believe it was OK, or I'd likely be out of a job. Home Depot would just be selling them a hose so they can tend to their garden. No encouragement there that I can see.


It's such a complicated issue because theirs so many different situations. I think it's also incredibly subjective. A Christian nanny could say "their not my kids, it's not my job to raise them to believe what I believe."
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby Ethnog » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:45 am

I don't like it at all.
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby little_tigress » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:17 am

TX_CO_Matt wrote:
little_tigress wrote:They're doing this in Kansas too?

This actually brings up a topic I was planning to ask about here.

I think everyone here knows I work as a nanny. When I was searching for jobs here last spring, I recall seeing a couple - two women who had a little girl and needed a fulltime nanny. The job details, such as hours and pay, looked great to me. And they both sounded like really interesting people that I probably could get along with great.

But I personally believe that homosexuality is a sin, and I wasn't sure how comfortable I would have been helping to raise a little girl in a home where that was going on. Plus, I don't hide the fact that I am a Christian -so if they asked me directly my thoughts on homosexuality, I'd have to be honest. Which very well might the end of that job right there - because its hard to say politely (though I'd've tried my hardest), "I believe your lifestyle is sinful."

Sooo... I never bothered applying.

Now that situation might be different than say Home Depot refusing to serve a same sex couple. So whats the line? In my situation I feel like I would have been actively encouraging sin because I'd have to raise their daughter to believe it was OK, or I'd likely be out of a job. Home Depot would just be selling them a hose so they can tend to their garden. No encouragement there that I can see.


It's such a complicated issue because theirs so many different situations. I think it's also incredibly subjective. A Christian nanny could say "their not my kids, it's not my job to raise them to believe what I believe."


In theory, thats correct. but in practice, that doesn't work so well. Kids think, they can pick up on things, and they ask questions and like to talk about things. If a child asked me, "is it wrong for my mommies to be together? My friend Suzy said it was wrong." Am I supposed to lie? Or break their trust by ignoring the question?
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby Wren » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:32 pm

I don't like people using religion as an excuse to discriminate. It bothers me with Arizona and it bothers me in other states where they allow pharmacists to refuse selling birth control.
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby Wren » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:03 pm

Apparently there is a group that isn't happy and is harassing people because of this bill. (Just kidding, but I thought of this thread when I read this story.)
http://gawker.com/arizona-town-overrun- ... 1529393441
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby mina » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:50 am

I do think homosexuality is a sin; but it's no bigger a sin than gluttony, pride, laziness, gossip, etc, etc..... So, if a business owner is denying service to a gay person based on religious objection; are they also denying service to liars, gossips, overeaters, etc..? If you included all sin as a quality to deny service then you couldn't do business. I just provided a service for a baby shower. I have no idea if the girl having the baby is gay or straight; or if the person throwing the shower is gay or straight. It wasn't important and I didn't ask. The only way I would not provide service to someone , as a small business owner, is if I got a bad feeling about the person or I felt something was off that caused me to be fearful of my own safety.

In cases like LT, where the person providing the service is in someone's home and has to closely interact with a family and even a family's value system on a daily basis...it's a little different to me than having a store front where people freely come in to buy what you have to sell. I think in the former situation the couple themselves would want someone interacting with their children who is in line with what they believe. Then it's about finding a good fit with your family. So, I do think people like nannies, tutors, housekeepers, etc.... have some say about who they choose to work for and people have a choice in who they want to hire as well.
Last edited by mina on Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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