Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby MacFall » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:07 am

The right of voluntary association, and its corollary, the right to refuse unwanted association, are fundamental to a free and peaceful society. But, I have a few problems with this nonetheless.

First, the singling out of gay customers. I believe that people have the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason. I don't care if they're racists, sexists, anti-gay, anti-smoker, anti-furry, anti-ginger, whatever. A person who is an ass has the right to act like an ass on his own property, and businesses are private property. This law really is discriminatory in that the same store owner would be sued to hell and back if he denied service to a member of any other minority group, I'd bet. It is not a reflection of the ancient "right to be an ass"; it is a special dispensation to act in a certain way towards a certain group that happens to be particularly unpopular in that place right now. Discrimination is what that is, by definition, and the law should not discriminate.

Second. Christians should not be looking for the state to protect them from the world, because the state is just as much a part of the world as anything else, and even when the intentions of politicians are good the means they use is always corrupt. This is like a small-scale model of what happened under Constantine: Rome stopped killing Roman Christians in the name of pagan gods and started killing pagans in the name of the Christian God. But Jesus never said we wouldn't, or shouldn't, be persecuted. In fact, he promised we would be; and assured us of comfort and ultimate victory in that persecution. I believe it would be better for a Christian to follow his or her conscience in violation of the law and suffer persecution for it than to call on Caesar, as it were, to pass a law forcing everyone else to fake Christian virtue.

But of course in a society where people think that opposition to the Moral Majority's political platform constitutes "persecution", I suppose that's too much to ask.

Finally, I personally would not refuse service to a gay couple. I don't believe that it is my business what people do with a cake, any more than as a hotel manager I would bar people from renting rooms if I suspected them of doing something immoral in them. We are not supposed to be the morality police for unbelievers. God will convict people of their sin. It is our job to bring people to Him, and we don't do that by being paladins against the sins we personally find unacceptable, while ignoring all the planks in our own eyes. And as examples of the latter I would list gluttony, materialism, and wrath as likely culprits.
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby Sara » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:23 am

How will they know who to discriminate against? My lesbian friends don't go around french kissing and hands all over each other. They also don't wear a sign that says "lesbian couple." I feel bad for the people who want to be able to not serve gays because they may accidentally serve one and then what will God think of them? (that last sentence was sarcasm.)

PS. I think the bill is stupid.
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby Wren » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:14 pm

Governor vetoed it, which was smart. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... rsial-bill

"Three Republican state senators have reversed their position on the bill in light of the controversy it's ignited," KJZZ adds. "Sens. Adam Driggs, Steve Pierce and Bob Worsley sent Brewer a letter Monday asking her to veto the bill."

Ok, are those senators dumb? How could they not have foreseen the controversy?
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby MacFall » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:34 pm

Not dumb. Just short-sighted and narcissistic, which are two character traits required to seek political office.
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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby ulu » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:18 am

MacFall wrote:Not dumb. Just short-sighted and narcissistic, which are two character traits required to seek political office.


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Re: Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

Postby sketcher » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:26 am

It seems like it would protect photographers and bakers from being forced to provide goods or services in support of gay commitment ceremonies. It sounds like it has the potential to be abused, which isn't really what Christians want. And that could be trouble, though it is generally bad business to abuse a law like that.
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