gender roles

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Re: gender roles

Postby Wren » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:17 pm

I don't know if it's a North thing or a Northeast US thing. In Wisconsin and Michigan, it's not a big deal at all to be a housewife or SAHM. I haven't found negative attitudes about women's career vs home choices in the Upper Midwest. Though I do notice women may be slightly warmer when they find out I'm a SAHM. But when someone tells them they work outside the home, there's no judgment or snotty remarks that I've noticed. I have noticed almost apologetic attitudes, however. On both sides, including me. Women will be like, "oh I wish I could do that sometimes" when they hear I'm a SAHM. And I'm all "I plan to get a job when my son starts preschool but not before then because child care costs are just too much".

But when I lived in Long Island, I did get a lot of people asking where I worked and there was an awkward pause when I informed them that I didn't have an outside job. One of the many reasons I'm glad to no longer live in that area is people seem more harsh and judgmental in general. (Yes, I'm sure there are many wonderful people in that area, including the lovely Mina, but the general population I came across fit the stereotypes.)
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Re: gender roles

Postby mina » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:29 pm

I agree that the general population in the Northeast is like that. I often feel out of place and that is one of the reasons why. There is a general money obsession here; partly because it's too expensive to live here, and partly because it feels like everyone has a champagne diet on a beer budget- everyone seems to want the best in terms of material things. It's a little crazy and often tacky. I'm not against working hard to afford nice things, but I don't agree that everyone has to work outside the home to satisfy stranger's opinions, or that everyone has to keep up with the Joneses not only materially, but work wise as well. I do a lot of work at home to help my husband's business, which is our business, so that he doesn't have to hire extra people. Plus, I do my own things. Here, If a man says he runs his business out of his home, no one cares or they think it's awesome. But when a woman says it , there are a lot of negative assumptions and even anger. I don't know, maybe it's stems from resentment or insecurity. I think there is a lot of gender insecurities when it comes to things like work and marriage and work within marriage. On another forum, after I got married and admittedly was at home working, a "charming" fellow was so bothered by that he would post underhanded, passive aggressive things like, "oh now that I'm married, I can get fat.", and other lewd things insinuating that married women at home were lazy and had to much time on their hands and were moochers. Nice stuff, huh? I still think some people have a long way to go in dealing with gender things.
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Re: gender roles

Postby little_tigress » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:56 pm

Uh wow. That's disgusting. I grew up in a (sub) culture where it was not only accepted but expected for a woman to stay home (the expectation/reaction tends to be the opposite of what we see in more secular/progressive areas. If you didn't stay home you didn't care about your family and were selfish). I've never met one lazy SAHM who used the opportunity to get fat and avoid work.
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Re: gender roles

Postby mina » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:14 pm

I've never met a lazy SAHM or housewife either. There are probably some that exist in real life and that are on silly reality tv shows, but I would not say that's the norm.
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Re: gender roles

Postby Rhamiel » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:44 am

do most of you assume that these verses were only from the culture of the time?
Ephesians 5:22-28

22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansingb her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
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Re: gender roles

Postby mina » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:43 am

My personal opinion is that those verses are very relevant today. I think mutual love and submission should happen in marriage. I don't believe submission to be a bad word. I think no matter your gender and if you are a christian that knows God , if you can't submit to God; then you have no business submitting to another person in marriage. And another thought , marriage is submission and I don't know how it would work well if both partners were not submitting their will to one another to go forward together. If either gender or partner only wants to barge forward with their will only; then that marriage is not going to work well for long. Each partner has to submit to move in unison.
Last edited by mina on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: gender roles

Postby little_tigress » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:23 pm

Considering the command is tied to Christ and following His example, I'd say that passage is doctrinal rather than cultural. There seems to be an expectation that all believers should do this.

What do you think, rhamiel?
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Re: gender roles

Postby Sara » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:30 pm

I work because I have to for our family to make ends meet. If I didn't have to, I'd probably volunteer or start a genealogical research company.

Basically I agree with everything Mina has said.
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Re: gender roles

Postby Wren » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:32 pm

I don't have a lot of time, so I'll just say this. I discussed those verses with my marrying pastor and explained to him how I saw the verses as mutual submission. I know that my view isn't the most common, so I was (pleasantly) surprised that the pastor saw things the same way and we had a good discussion.
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Re: gender roles

Postby Rhamiel » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:38 am

hey Little Tigress

I am not married, so I have not put in a TON of research, thought or prayer into this topic

but the verse I quoted, along with other verses, seem to have the Husband/Father as having authority
Eve was created to be a helpmate for Adam for example

now authority does not mean you can do whatever you want, as the Bible shows, those in authority have more responsibility, are judged more harshly, look in the OT many of the harsh condemnations for the leaders of Israel

we learn love from Christ
in the mystery of His Passion and Crucifixion we see more deeply the sacrificial nature of Love

so men and women are called to sacrifice
men are called to "love their wives as Christ loves His Church" to put the wife first, even at the cost of your own life if needed
women are called to submit to their husbands as the Church submits to Christ, because they know that everything is being done for their benefit

now this is the ideal, of course this submission does not cover things that are immoral or harmful

I am kind of old fashioned on this, and if/when I get closer to marriage I will put considerably more thought, research, and prayer into this topic
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